Interview by Sean Boelman

Working closely with series creator Michael Cusack, Koala Man showrunners Dan Hernandez and Benji Samit helped to craft an immersive alternate version of the Australian suburb Dapto. We at disappointment media got the opportunity to talk with Hernandez and Samit about the writing of the show, balancing its tone, and staying true to the real-life Dapto. Check out the full interview below!

disappointment media: So Koala Man is full of episodes that have these silly, absurd premises, but you also kind of approach them with a straight face. How did you find this balance between the goofiness and absurdity with something a bit more grounded?

Benji Samit: Yeah, that was an important guiding principle for us in crafting this show and these episodes — that we never want it to go crazy just for the sake of being crazy. Yes, we go to zany, insane places on the show. But every time it's based out of a real grounded, character thing or story thing. There’s emotion at its core. We find that, as long as you can hold on to that through-line of emotion and story, then you can go as big as you want and you can still feel connected to what you’re watching.

Dan Hernandez: And I think that also combines with, when we were developing the show, there was a question of, “Well, how crazy should it go?” There's a version of this show that could be King of the Hill that is really, very grounded and it's not supernatural. But as we developed Kevin as a character, we realized what was funny about him was the fact that he doesn't have powers or that he's not in shape, but he does have this ethos that demands that he interferes with things. It became funnier and funnier to us to put him up against real threats that he should have no business going up against, like an alien, like cannibals, like Manimals. Every time it was like, we're sending this out of shape guy with no powers against something that should kill him in a second. And that was funny to us. And so the comedic element was the more you believe Kevin as a character, in his mind, like cutting the grass one centimeter and fighting an emu that has a machine gun are basically equivalent, just a problem to be dealt with, in his mind. And that makes him endearing and sort of difficult but also hilarious in his misbehavior and shit like that.

disappointment: I think one of those emotional through-lines that you talked about that was really powerful to me was the theme of family. How did this theme really resonate with you guys in the show?

Hernandez: Benji and I both have young kids. I think that becoming a father over the process of working on this show was actually extremely useful to the writing of the show. Because you start to think about things in a slightly different way. You're not really just focused on yourself. All of a sudden, you start to think about, “What is the legacy that I'm leaving for my kids? What are the things that I dislike about myself that I don't want to pass on to my kids? How are my bad behaviors going to affect them in the future? How did my own parents' behaviors affect me?” And when you really started to delve into that, that was a very fertile territory for emotional stories. At the same time, we wanted the show to be optimistic. We made a decision early on that this was not a cynical show, that this was kind of positive in a way, life-affirming.

Samit: We wanted the family to really love each other, you know. Kevin — Koala Man — he loves his town, and he loves his family. That’s his guiding principle. But then within the whole family, Kevin and Vicky love each other, even though they have their issues with each other, and the kids have their issues, everyone in the family has their issues, like we all do. But at the end of the day, they are 100% there for each other.

Hernandez: Even Alison, on her quest, she’s almost embarrassed that she loves her dad in that episode, and that that felt real to me on some level about being a teenager and being trapped in that idea of popularity. But you’ve got this person who’s on your side no matter what: your dad. And that was very moving to me. So that’s how we approached the family element. And we realized, if we grounded the family element in real human emotion, real stakes, that let us be as crazy as we want it to be on all the other stuff, because the stakes for them were very real.

disappointment: One of my favorite things about Koala Man is that everybody could walk away from the show with a different favorite character because the subplots are so developed and lived in. Do each of you have a character that you would call your favorite?

Samit: It’s a tough one, because they're all our babies, you know. But in terms of just fun to write, Spider, he can just get the punchline. So that’s always a fun type of character to write. I think Vicky is the emotional heart of the show. So she’s obviously a favorite of ours. 

Hernandez: It's so hard to pick. I really enjoyed writing the kids, honestly, because I think it was fun to go back into that teenage place and try to project down through the years of what it felt like to be an awkward teen or to be wanting people to notice you. And so I think Demi Lardner is the secret weapon of the show. I think she gives an absolutely remarkable performance. Her voice is incredible. She's so funny. And she's someone that the world, that we in America we're not as familiar with. And I think that after this, I hope that people will be because she's awesome. So Allison was a real favorite of mine to write just because to be able to be a mean girl for a minute — that was a fun thing to do.

disappointment: Something else that really stood out to me about this show is that there are a lot of jokes and elements in the series that are very specific to Australian culture and neither of you is Australian. So I'm assuming that writing the show just as much as it will be for the viewers is this learning, immersive experience in the culture. What do you think is one of your favorite things that you got to discover about Australian culture through the show?

Samit: I mean, there's so many little quirks. It was really fun seeing the similarities to America, but also the differences. Finding out about the emu war, finding out about showbags, the tradies. Skilled laborers being at the top of the social food chain was such a foreign concept to all of the American writers, but to the Australian’s they’re just like, “Oh yeah, no. An electrician is just the coolest guy in Australia.”

Hernandez: I thought what was very interesting was sort of the directness of Australian culture. Like tall poppy syndrome is the idea that anyone that gets too big for their britches, we don't like that, you kind of do your job, you kind of plug ahead, and you keep your head down, and you live a good and fulfilling life. And that’s what you do. And it was interesting to juxtapose that with a character like Liam, who actually does have a little bit more of an artistic impulse, who is interested in things like nerdy or geeky things, and his feeling of, “Do I even belong here? Should I be in Australia?” Which, ultimately, one of the reasons he runs away to Hollywood Island and in the finale is that he's in search of something more. And there are some people that really thrive within that culture, then there are some people that feel not understood. That really does come down to sort of cultural values and what is privileged there and how it's quite different from what's privileged here, even though it seems like it should be very similar. The nuance of it is totally, totally different.

disappointment: So I want to compliment you guys on the world building of Koala Man. I really love that aspect of the show. You balance the mundane suburbia with these fantastic events. How do you kind of go about juxtaposing this world in that way?

Hernandez: I think because Dapto is a real place and it really is Michael's hometown, that there's a feeling of reality underlying all of the show that yes, we're blowing it out into the most surrealistic, crazy, over-the-top version of it. But really, it's a real thing and a real place. And these are people and places identifiable to Michael in his own life and the streets that he grew up with. We've been fortunate enough now to talk to other people who grew up in Illawarra and Dapto. And they’re like, “Yeah, that’s what it’s like.” Even though there isn't literally a plant monster rampage in the city, the other stuff is just real. That's just what it is. And so we felt like that reality wedded to some of the classic world building that shows like Simpsons, South Park, Family Guy, where you have the town as a character, and you know the denizens of the town, and how they’re going to react. You know that Randy is gonna overreact on South Park, you know that Reverend Lovejoy is gonna be sanctimonious on The Simpsons. And once you start to get to know the geography and the interpersonal geography of the people and places of the town, it's fun to start to anticipate how they're going to react. What are they going to do? What is Spider going to feel about this? What is Louise going to feel about this? And that was really important to us because it made it feel very lived in. It made it feel like this is a place that functions, whether we as a viewer are watching it or not, and we really tried to cultivate that throughout the entire process of running the show.

Koala Man is now streaming on Hulu.

Interview by Sean Boelman

Hulu’s new adult animated show, Koala Man, created by Smiling Friends creator Michael Cusack has an A-list cast led by Australian and New Zealand legends like Hugh Jackman, Sarah Snook, Miranda Otto, Jemaine Clement, and Rachel House. But fans of the show will be equally — if not more impressed — by its breakout star: Australian comedian Demi Lardner.

We at disappointment media sat down with Lardner to talk about her character in the show, why she hopes Americans will be subjected to bags of random junk, and the theoretical assassination of one of her more famous co-stars. Be sure to check out the interview below!

disappointment media: I think that the character of Alison really has one of the most interesting arcs of any character in the show. What spoke to you about this character's role and growth in the show?

Demi Lardner: I love Alison. And the thing that I love most about her is that she's a weird little psycho. And her growth is uncomfortable, which speaks to me because like, when I watch people kiss in movies and emotions and stuff I’m like [she shivers]. But obviously, it’s a good thing. And I think the amount of discomfort she has with her own goodness is very cool to me. And also, I don’t have to act much when I’m uncomfortable with it, because I just am.

disappointment: I think something that's really special about Koala Man is that the subplots are just as interesting as the main storyline. Other than your own character, of course, do you have a particular character that you found was particularly compelling or your favorite?

Lardner: So I'm extremely drawn to Liam, just always such a wonderful, little dork. But in a way, his growth is also more supernatural and strange. But they sort-of parallel each other. When she’s like “Man, I hate having feelings!” he’s like “Oh bloody hell! I’m all magical!” I find that really interesting as a person who, when I was a kid, would grab my dog and say, “Hey, if you can talk, I will NOT tell anybody.” It's kind of like that if it came true, and it’s relatable in a way.

disappointment: And you kind of mentioned the sibling dynamic that your character has with Liam in the show. It's really unique and not stereotypical. Did you find that to be particularly interesting to work with?

Lardner: So I have five sisters, and no brothers. It's like the version of when I got old enough to be friends with my sisters. And again, being uncomfortable with it and being like, “Oh man, I like you. Ugh. This is stupid.” I enjoyed playing around with that. Most of the things that made me uncomfortable were the things I enjoyed the most.

disappointment: The cast is full of Australian and New Zealand legends in the acting community. What was it like to be part of this extraordinary ensemble?

Lardner: It's so weird. Like one of my ex’s mom's got in touch with me to be like, “It’s like Sarah Snook, Hugh Jackman, and YOU are listed in this article. And that’s it.” And I was like, “This is crazy. You show your son. Show him now!” It's really wild. And I've been told to stop threatening the really famous people. So this is a joke, but I am going to kill Hugh Jackman.

disappointment: So the humor in the show obviously has some very Australia-centric moments, but it's also widely relatable. How did you kind of approach the humor in this series?

Lardner: I mean, I'm a comedian. To get wanky about it, it’s another language that crosses the ocean. [She makes an exaggerated vomiting noise.] It’s a good thing to relate to people with, though. So the humor, it is super Australian, but it’s also just super funny and there’s no denying that. I think it’s a really natural fit, and also you get to squeeze in the C-bomb and as much swearing as humanly possible. We are Australian, after all.

disappointment: But even though it is very foul-mouthed, it’s also very wholesome in a way.

Lardner: Yeah. And that encapsulates a lot of Australian families, honestly. At least mine.

disappointment: On that note, family is a really important part of this show. How did that theme resonate with you?

Lardner: It’s really nice. I think it’s important for shows to have that. It makes me think of Malcolm in the Middle vibes, you know, when you’d watch that and be like, “God, these guys are insane! And they hate each other!” And then you realize, actually, they love each other more than anything on planet Earth, and that is really cool. Zeroing in on that kind of makes it funnier because you know that they love each other, but you have the full range to be disgusting because you’re safe in the fact that they’re safe with each other and their feelings.

disappointment: Your character arc in specific, it starts out kind-of normal high school drama and then escalates, and by the final episode it just goes off the rails. What was it like evolving with your character?

Lardner: Extremely uncomfortable. I really enjoyed it because it made me uncomfortable. I think it was cool to have her be mad that she was feeling things. It made it easier to grow her character because she was uncomfortable. It was cool to let this little mean freak cry. Like she's so nasty and annoying and awful and then just having her completely split apart with the feelings was an interesting thing to do.

disappointment: I think one of the more heavily Australian elements in the show was the episode about showbags which was something that was completely foreign to me as an American. Why do you think that they remain an Australian phenomenon and why did you just cheer excitedly when I mentioned them?

Lardner: They’re so exciting! They’re trash! There's nothing in them that you actually want! But it's a bag from the show. I think it was called the “super idiot bag” that everybody wanted because you would get like a fake ass in a pair of shorts. And you'd be like, “Oh, it’s like me bum’s out! Isn’t that so cool?” It’s nothing! You're never gonna use them. You're never gonna wear them and it’s just the worst chocolate you've ever seen in your life. But it was so cool. They look so good. Oh man, I need to go to the show. It’s so exciting and trash. And then such a burden. Because you're walking around trying to go on rollercoasters and the Ferris wheel and stuff and you're like, “What am I gonna do with my bag?” Everything’s gonna drop out. The amount of awful little mood rings and Bertie Beetle candy bars that suck and everybody hates that I've seen falling from people's pockets coming out of roller coasters. It's amazing. It's so good. And the reason they will never make it anywhere else is because they are literal trash. You can do nothing with any of it.

disappointment: So apart from the show bags, is there something that you hope that international audiences and American audiences will pick up on from Australian culture from the show?

Lardner: Yeah, two things. Sausage rolls. You don’t know what is in them. It’s impossible to tell. You don't have a beef sausage roll or a chicken sausage roll. No, there’s just stuff in there. And that’s great. And the word c**t. I think it’s my favorite one. And it does sound different coming from Australian mounts but I would love to be able to walk around New York and say it without people you know pointing their guns at me.

Koala Man is now streaming on Hulu.

Interview by Sean Boelman

Australian animator Michael Cusack is best known for creating the series Smiling Friends and YOLO: Crystal Fantasy. His newest series, Koala Man, is now streaming on Hulu and goes all-in on the Australian humor while still delivering a story that is universally enjoyable and approachable.

We got to sit down with Cusack to discuss having sex with planets (you’ll get it when you watch the show), Australian culture, and his inspirations and challenges working on the show. Check out the full interview below!

disappointment media: If you could have sex with any planet in our solar system, which one would it be and why?

Michael Cusack: Ooh, that’s hard. That’s a good one. Uranus is too obvious. I'm gonna go Jupiter. Because it's a gassy planet. I feel like it would be nice and sensual.

disappointment: Would you right swipe or left swipe on earth?

Cusack: Whatever the bad one is. I’ve had enough of Earth. Let's move from Earth for now. I've had 32 years of Earth.

disappointment: So this show, as an American, introduced me to the wonderful world of showbags. Why don't we have showbags in America?

Cusack: I don't know. That was something that we said in the writers room, assuming that Americans knew about it, too. And then when Americans didn't, it was a shock to us. Like, that was a staple of our childhood, going to the Easter Show and more than anything, looking forward to getting like the showbag of whatever it was — the Pokemon show bag, the Dragonball Z one, or like the Mars Bar showbag. Like everything that you love had its own show bag full of the treats and goodies and toys of that same brand. And it was the best, but super expensive and overpriced. Yeah, I think hopefully, if anything, the main goal is this show introduces showbags to America and ruins your economy with them and makes kids’ parents absolutely broke.

disappointment: So do you think that, you know, one day we could get a Koala Man themed showbag?
​
Cusack: That would be the dream. I’d sell them myself. We should have done that as a promotion for this season, I just realized.

disappointment: And there was the prawn-themed showbag. Is that a real thing or is that a complete fabrication?

Cusack: That's fake too. But again, something I'm going to push after this call. I'll be making some calls and some emails, because the world needs a prawn showbag.

disappointment: I noticed that in your shows you’ve made several prawn themed jokes. Where does your interest in prawns come from?

Cusack: That's an Aussie thing, because at Christmas time, we don't have turkey or chicken. It's not the same as America in that aspect. It literally is just a bowl of prawns and a little ball of water to wash your hands with after you've broken the prawns. That's Christmas dinner. I had it a few days ago for Christmas at my mom’s house. It's just kind of a staple of Australia, prawns… they feel Aussie. So yeah, I had to stuff as many prawns in there as possible.

disappointment: The series has a voice cast full of all of these Australian and New Zealand A-listers. What was it like assembling this cast for the show?

Cusack: Really great. Really incredible. I really didn't think we'd be able to get anyone because I've got low expectations. But the showrunners on this show, Dan and Benji, and a lot of our American staff were extremely keen on aiming for the stars. And I was like, “What, we're not going to get the likes of Hugh Jackman?” But apparently we did and we could. So I am truly just still shocked. I think it was maybe because we had an Aussie show for American TV and it felt fresh. And hopefully it's a good concept that they liked and it seemed like they did and they came on board. Sarah Snook, Hugh Jackman, Hugo Weaving, Jemaine Clement, Rachel House, all these amazing actors, I can't believe it, they were just incredible. And they were a joy to direct. And they really, really elevated the whole project to something so much better than I ever would have imagined. It was great.

disappointment: And as you kind of mentioned, there are these very specific jokes and elements that are related to Australian culture, but the show also feels very universal. How do you strike this balance between the two?

Cusack: My thing is that it’s Aussie, but it’s not stereotypically Aussie. So when I say that, I mean it's not like, “Chuck another shrimp on the barbie,” kind of Aussie. Hopefully, it's not cliche. The show, at its core, our aim is still to make it character driven and plot driven. At the end of the day, there's a human kind of conflict. So ideally, it would be relatable and the Australiana is more of a garnish on top of something that is more about really the character and the story.

disappointment: One of my favorite things about the show is that I feel like anyone could watch the show and walk away with a different favorite character. I know it's kind of hard to pick, but if you had to pick one of your favorite characters, which would it be?

Cusack: I think it'd be Big Greg. I don't know. It's maybe 50% because it's always by Hugh Jackman. And also just the character I like. He's just so confident in his skin, and he has life figured out. He's a good role model to look up to. And I really like the dynamic between him and Kevin, it’s a funny back-and-forth. Because Kevin would dream to be Big Greg, and Big Greg would just kinda look down upon Kevin. That's funny. And Damo and Darren. I love Damo and Darren. And they come from the heart. They've been with me since about 2014 when I made a cartoon called Ciggy Butt Brain.

disappointment: And what was the inspiration to integrate these two characters into Koala Man?

Cusack: I always liked how Kevin Smith put Jay and Silent Bob in everything he did. I just thought that was nice glue that pulled things like Mallrats and Clerks and Chasing Amy all together. And they kind of are a bit Jay and Silent Bob-ish. And I made shorts called Damo and Darren years ago on YouTube, and that was set in Dapto. So I just thought if Koala Man is in Dapto, then Damo and Darren would be. So it’s just kind of the same world, I guess.

disappointment: So the episodes of Koala Man are longer than the episodes of Smiling Friends and YOLO. Did you find that the longer format was exciting? Scary? Challenging?

Cusack: It was scary and challenging, for sure. But I was lucky enough to have a lot of help. Dan and Benji as the showrunners, they're extremely talented and experienced in the world of TV. So they brought a lot of experience in that arena and we had a great writers room too. But yeah, it was definitely a challenge for me. It's a new learning curve to write for that length of time because, as you say, I'm used to the 11-minute format. But we did alright, I reckon.

disappointment: Obviously, this is kind-of a superhero show, but Koala Man doesn’t have any powers. Where did this more grounded superhero approach come from?

Cusack: I just thought that Australian humor is a lot based in reality — I guess, the depressing reality of natural things happening. So I just thought if there was an Australian superhero, it would make sense if it just was this middle aged guy in the suburbs that had no powers. Because that generation of men are very passionate about cleaning up the town and saying that the police aren't doing anything about it, and the government's not doing anything about it. There's just a reality to that archetype that's funny to me and fits in with the superhero mold.  And what makes it even funnier to me is it's grounded and everything, and you know, he has no powers, but in this world, we do realize, he's got a nemesis and there are actual, real threats and supervillains and creatures with powers, but you have to dig a bit deeper to find them. It’s a fun world to play in.

disappointment: And the show blends those grounded elements with absurdist humor. How did you balance the two tones?

Cusack: It's really hard. Probably the hardest part about it actually was balancing those two tones because it was a little bit of having your cake and eating it too. There's a world where this show could have been like a King of the Hill, where it just was completely Koala Man with no superpowers and no one else with any powers and it was just 100% grounded. But I just felt like that was gonna get a little bit old. So offsetting that with that, it actually could have a supervillain from space just emerging felt like it could shake it up. And the way to kind of balance that is really just staying true to what the characters wants and needs are at the end of the day. If the characters have strong goals and strong motivations, then you can really get away with a lot when it comes to having fun with changing the tone. That was the big thing we kind of learned and stuck to.

Koala Man is now streaming on Hulu.

Interview by Sean Boelman

In the genre community, Peter Strickland is one of the most beloved filmmakers because of his films' unique use of atmosphere and satire. His newest work, the high society satire Flux Gourmet, is perhaps his most idiosyncratic film yet — a truly bizarre blend of gastric distress, dark humor, and commentary on the art world — but it’s downright fascinating to dissect.

We at disappointment media had the chance to speak with Strickland about his film and some of the techniques he used in creating this surreal fantasy. Check out the interview below and be sure to see Flux Gourmet, in theaters and on VOD now!

disappointment media: Sound is an important part of all of your films, and I would say it's especially important in Flux Gourmet. What do you like most about sonic experimentation in your films?

Peter Strickland: Well, I suppose a little bit just came from watching Eraserhead at quite a young age. I was 16. And that was a huge epiphany for me, because I think prior to that, I was watching, you know, Tom Cruise films, which I still love, but it's just a very different approach to sound in something like Cocktail. And suddenly, sound was not illustrating something, it was actually expressing something. And there was just a complete reversal of how I thought about sound, how it conveyed a state of mind and it really just opened up something that I really wanted to explore, that I felt I could do something with somehow. So yeah, I think I'm still chasing that feeling from watching Eraserhead all those years ago.

disappointment: In this film, particularly, I really loved your use of experimental music. What were some of your influences for the soundtrack of the film in that regard?

Strickland: Well, it's gonna sound very self reflexive, but we had a band called The Sonic Catering Band. So a lot of it came from what we did. But also, I was listening to Luigi Nono. And we actually played his music for the trips to the shops, especially. I think when the guy who did the eventual music, Roger Stevens, he was using all these gongs and he fed into this 2600 modular synthesizer, the same synthesizer that I think that Ben Burtt used for R2D2. And I think a lot of it also came from bands like White House, Throbbing Gristle, Robert Ashley, even Butthole Surfers. A lot of people were taking found voices coming back from radio phone-ins or whatever, but usually detailing something very disturbing, you know, horrific abuse and so on. So really quite shocking stuff. But there's something very haunting about the quality of the voice, this found voice, and I wanted to try that with the scene in the film, the scatological scene, but I didn't want to have anything where someone is a victim. I wanted to do something else. But it was still very intense. So I wrote something for that and the mixer's friend. He got an actor he knew to record something in German, and we treated it as if it came from some kind of radio phone-in. And so yeah, I think bands like that.

disappointment: So in the film, you juxtapose this high society institution, with shock value with an almost ribald nature. What made you want to set out on this satirical approach?

Strickland: I guess it's a world I know quite well, both the funding world and being in a band, something I felt quite confident in. Obviously, what you're seeing is not the real world. But I was interested in the whole power play in these arguments and how ego, just like in everything in life, especially politics, how ego just destroys everything. It's very important to take the most ridiculous thing, you know, a tiny change in the flanger. That's all they wanted, it wouldn't make any difference either way. But they lock horns over something so small. So in a way, the flanger was a MacGuffin to explore. Yeah, I guess I was interested in ego, in deceit and how and how people self curate themselves, especially now in the world of social media, how you present yourself, the nature of doing a biopic about yourself, and I wanted to look at the lies, the deceit behind all that.

disappointment: And in a similar way, the film has this, you know, very absurd sense of humor on one hand. And then on the other hand, it's very solemn. Why do you think that this balance between the two modes was important to you?

Strickland: Well, I wanted to look at stomach issues. We've seen them played for laughs all the time. Fair enough, fine. But I wanted to look at it differently. I think for a lot of people, it's not a joke. It's something very, very, very, very serious. I'm not aware of that having been done before. So as you say, to take something which is normally done as something vulgar or something "frat boy" or funny and give it this laconic, solemn feel. And obviously, it's pitted against all the bickering you see, between the band. How that gels together? I don't know. I'm hoping it works for one audience. But you know, what I'm more concerned about is an audience being with Stones's character, whether they laugh or not at all. The bickering doesn't bother me. But, you know, if they laugh at the Stones character, I feel I've somehow failed. ut someone told me after seeing the film, they said, "Oh, you know, your fart jokes were not very funny." And it's like, "Okay, that was the idea."

disappointment: I think that one of my favorite parts of the film is the character work. So you have like, Stones in the film is spatially with the characters, you know, a few steps aside, but also kind of intimately voyeuristic. And I feel like that is also what we feel as the audience. How did you kind of go about building this?

Strickland: Very much. He is a narrator, he is a window into their world. But obviously, we're a window into his world. I think what fascinated me was when I make films, sometimes you have, they call them the EPK person, the electronic press kit person, someone who's there to document us filming. And their job is to be invisible. And those characters always fascinate me. Let's take the invisible person, let's put that person on center stage. And he clearly wants to be invisible. That's the whole thing. One, that is his job to be invisible, and two, because of his stomach issues, he's even more motivated that way. And somehow, it's like a centrifuge is just going to suck it into the center by the manipulations of Fatima's character. So that was the thing, he's invisible, but he's unwitting. He ended up in the band, basically, so it's just charting that journey of being someone who is just doing a job, but there's this idea that he is someone who, like a lot of these characters, they're all aspiring directors, or aspiring novelists, and all of us have to do jobs, which are commercial jobs. And I do commercial jobs. I write for other people. So I'm very much used to the idea of putting on a different head. You know, he's there like a tailor. So yeah, I'm just interested in those characters really.

Flux Gourmet is now in theaters and on VOD.

Interview by Sean Boelman

The Phantom of the Open debuted at last year’s BFI London Film Festival to great acclaim. Written by Simon Farnaby (Paddington 2) and directed by Craig Roberts (Eternal Beauty), the film tells the unbelievably true story of Maurice Flitcroft, a man who entered the British Open despite not being a professional and ended up scoring the highest round in the history of the tournament.

We at disappointment media got the opportunity to talk with Farnaby and Roberts in advance of the film’s release. We talked about golf movies, the Flitcroft family, Paddington 2, and more. Check out the interview below and make sure to see The Phantom of the Open in theaters beginning June 3.

disappointment media: So what are some of your favorite movies that feature the sport of golf?

Simon Farnaby: Oh, good question. I mean, Caddyshack is probably my favorite. Yeah, but Craig and I disagree a lot over Happy Gilmore. I usually love all the films that Craig loves, but I really hate Happy Gilmore. And I think I hate you because I don't think it's a golf movie. I think it's a hockey movie.

Craig Roberts: Yeah. I think you're right. If you look at it that way, it's brilliant. 

Farnaby: But I'll tell you something, which is that I grew up around golf and I love golf, and always sort of wanted a good golf movie that did golf some justice in terms of this sort of competition of it. I mean, Tin Cup got pretty close. But I always went, "Why do these courses look so shit?" Like they don't look like that. Championship courses look a particular way. And they never ever look like that on screen. And when we shot this movie, I realized why. Which is because no members will let you shoot on their course, no matter how much money you throw at them. Because they just don't want their golf club to close for even like half a day.

Roberts: And it makes it difficult because you also can't get the equipment onto the greens. That was certainly a challenge.

Farnaby: So I really had a lesson there on why they look like that. I mean, actually one of the courses looks great. On the Lynx course, Danny Kent looks amazing. Although the wind was howling, and no one could stand up.

disappointment: Something in a film like The Phantom of the Open, you actually kind of have to make the sport scenes look unprofessional, because it's about someone who is not very good at golf. Was this a challenge?

Roberts: Well, it's just him that's not very good. So I suppose the biggest challenge with golf is that if you love golf, which a lot of people do, then it's fantastic. But then a lot of other people don't love golf as well and they find it boring. So for us, it was about keeping it interesting and entertaining. And you know, somebody who stood in the middle of a green field can get boring very quickly. So we just wanted to make sure, I suppose, that the camera moves and all that just matched his energy, you know, and his drive. And that was difficult keeping that going.

Farnaby: Actually, you know, showing bad golf is easier than showing good golf because of the shortness of the shot. 

Roberts: That's true actually, yeah.

Farnaby: Sometimes what people struggle with watching golf on TV is that you can't see where the ball is going. Because they hit it so far. But Maurice didn't do that. So we didn't have to deal with that problem.

disappointment: Something else that I loved about The Phantom of the Open is that just as much about family as it is about golf, how did this theme resonate with you?

Farnaby: Yes, it was. You know, Maurice and his wife, Jean had a very special relationship and the boys, you know, the twins and Michael, Maurice's stepson. So, in a way that was, as a screenwriter, the thing to get right. It's not really about golf, it's about a family, you know, and those characters and how they interact and what their sort of family philosophy is, and all that sort of stuff. And then when Craig came aboard, Craig was really into all that as well. And even more and going look, let's get this relationship right. And then getting Sally Hawkins, who can really hold up. In real life, Jean was Maurice's rock, and Sally managed to do that sort of brilliantly. So yeah, it's a good spot. It's very much about family.

Roberts: The way I look at it is that it's about somebody who's trying to defy the odds that he's given. You can't do that without his family at all. And certainly without Jean. I think as confident he is that he wants to do it, I think she believes in him more than he probably does as well. So that's a really powerful thing to have, you know, and it's helped many, many people throughout history. I think that's important to reflect.

disappointment: So one of my favorite bits in the film was the Fantastic Flitcrofts, the dancing twins. How did you go about incorporating this absurd and charming duo into the film?

Farnaby: Well, it was a great thing to have because they were genuinely world champion disco dancers, you know, Maurice had this philosophy that you see in the film of you know, just try and it doesn't matter if you fail. And they, in a way, are a part of that debate because they did try and then they succeeded. But they succeeded at something that had a very short life span, which was disco dancing, which died in the mid '80s. So it was great to have that because a film is kinda like a debate, sometimes I think, and it's good to have all the different elements of that. And they were part of that, and it was real, I was lucky enough to meet them. I mean, James is still alive and is in the film, actually. But I met Jean and James together when I first did the research for the movie, and they're really amazing characters and actually danced everywhere that they went and make a cup of tea and they go and dance.

Roberts: Christian and Jonah, we were very lucky to get them to be honest. We were about five weeks out from shooting, and I was panicking. But as soon as I saw the video, they sent a kind of an improv dance and then some acting self tape. And first off, they look like I don't know if you know the band The Last Shadow Puppets? It's Alex Turner and Miles Kane. And they kind of look like them. Like a funny version. Loved that. And then I Skyped with them when they got out. And I just love their energy so much. It kind of you know, that's how Boogie Nights feels.

disappointment: And I mean, as a whole, I think the cast in the film is phenomenal. I mean, you have Mark Rylance, Sally Hawkins. What was it like working with the cast to bring the Flitcrofts to life?

Roberts: It was a dream. It's the hardest part of the process, getting that right. Because, you know, you can shoot on the best cameras in the world. But if you don't have good actors, your movie's doomed. If you have a great actor or an iPhone, it's going to be a better movie. So getting that right is hard. But really satisfying once it comes together. When it came together for me was actually when we did a bunch of rehearsal for that. I never really rehearse to get it right. It's kind of to get it wrong and get all that out, really. But when it came to the first thing we had as a family, it was the scene where everybody was talking over each other. The dog was barking. And I kind of said to the actors that I kind of want it to feel like Uncut Gems, that Safdie Brothers movie. Just complete chaos. And weirdly, because they all could just talk over each other. I think it was very freeing for them. You could feel the chemistry and they all came together in that moment.

disappointment: So do you have a favorite alias that Maurice Flitcroft used?

Farnaby: Oh, God, I mean, Arnold Palmtree obviously, and I do think Count Manfred von Hoffmanstel. Like why put Count on it? And what Count has ever played golf? I mean, I've never seen Count in front, like that was an odd one. But Gene Paycheki--

Roberts: That's pretty good as well. I like Hoppy. Gerald Hoppy.

disappointment: Mr. Farnaby, Paddington 2 is a pop culture phenomenon. It was even a plot point in The Unbearable Weight of Massive Talent that came out this year. But did you ever expect that film to be such a smash?

Farnaby: No. Actually, I haven't seen the film yet, The Unbearable Weight of Massive Talent. [to Roberts] Have you heard about this? 

Roberts: No, I didn't.

Farnaby: I'll show you it in a bit. I've got it on my phone. And somebody sent me a clip of it. And both Paul King and I had a little chat and said it was almost the thing that made us most proud of the movie. Because like you say, it's become pop culture. And I had so many texts, and for so many people, that's their favorite bit of the movie. But we knew that the plan was to try and make two better than one. That was the goal we gave ourselves. And it was quite a hard thing to do, because it was really loved the first one. And so we really gave ourselves a tough job. But you know, it took us about two years to write it. And I think we put in a lot of effort. So it was nice to see it sort of come off. Maybe that's just how long you need to spend writing films.

disappointment: Well, like Paddington 2, I would say The Phantom of the Open is like this heartwarming, crowd pleasing, inspiring story. What stands out about these types of stories to you?

Roberts: Well, for me, it's escapism, isn't it? That's the important thing. I think cinema at its core, sure, should reflect society and all that stuff. But I go to the cinema to escape and to feel good. It's the kind of the Spielberg/Kubrick debate where you can go to a Kubrick movie and come out questioning the world and yourself, or you got to a Spielberg movie and come out and feel great and warm. And at this time in my life, I want to feel warm. And I think that's what's important.

Farnaby: Yeah, and I like characters that sort of reflect our fears, but don't have the same sort of reactions to them. For example, you know, I think we're all slightly frightened of failure, you know. And I say this to my daughter who's eight all the time, she tries things and is sort of scared to fail. And it's really important to go, it doesn't really matter if you fail, or like, somebody said, "Failing is success, part one," or something I don't know. I think I just said it, I forgot the quote. Craig and I even talked about The Big Lebowski, we both love The Big Lebowski, and that's got bowling in it, and this does golf. And as a character, he's sort of confident in his own lifestyle. And is fine with it, you know, and Maurice just went for it. He had this character that was like, "I'm gonna take my dream, and I'm gonna go for it, no matter what people think of me." And that's something that I think we like to see, you know, because we're so frightened of it ourselves. And we like to see people doing that and we can laugh and cry at that person, because it's a real hero's effort to do that, you know? Whereas most of us just go, "I'm not going to try anything in case I fail."

disappointment: Mr. Farnaby, you adapted the script from the book that you co-wrote, what was that process like for you?

Farnaby: Yeah, it was fine. Because I'd written the screenplay before I wrote the book, actually, and the screenplay was not very good. And then I did the book. You know, everyone should write a biography first, if they're gonna do a screenplay, because you just find out so much stuff. You know, you've got to do 50,000 words on one person. And then it's just a case of, I call it kind of like curating those elements into what I know about crafting screenplays. So it's actually a much easier process than doing straight fiction, which can go in any direction. And you just have to keep going down blind alleys. But this had lots of elements. I mean, the main difference to the bullshit screenplay I wrote, and the final one was, was finding an ending, because it's quite hard to write a sports movie where the person doesn't get any better at the sport. But what he does is find success in another way. And his sort of trip to the USA, was something that nobody knew about. It wasn't in the obituaries. And it wasn't in the newspapers. And that was all from digging in and going and doing research. And that gave us the end to the movie without giving too much away. Yeah, like you say it was once I'd sort of gone through the pain of researching and writing the book, the screenplay was fairly straightforward.

disappointment: I want to talk a little bit about the dream sequences in the film. I thought they were gorgeous. What went into creating those?

Roberts: Well, they were there already to be honest, they were in the script. The whole Starry Night aspect of it was there. So it was basically finding a good team that could execute it and bring that to life. And finding the right color palette for it all really. It was important, I think the escapism of it all. He wanted to, you know, to break out and do something that the people were telling him he couldn't do. So I think they're important to have in there. And when I read it, that's what really attracted me to the script. It kind of felt like The Big Lebowski, him walking up the steps. So that was really fun.

Farnaby: Yeah, I mean, Craig's being very modest. I wrote those because I wanted them and it was like a Billy Liar type thing. But that's why I'm not a director, because I wouldn't have had a clue. I was like, that's what I want. There's a dream sequence. But I didn't have a clue how to do it and actually created it brilliantly. I mean, even when he's on the tee and he hits his shot. And you see it from the ball's eye point of view. I was like, I have no idea how I was gonna do this, but I believe Craig pioneered a new type of shot, right?

Roberts: I didn't need to, I took it.

Farnaby: Oh you stole it?

Roberts: Yeah, from Simon's favorite film. I took it from Happy Gilmore. [They laugh]

The Phantom of the Open hits theaters on June 3.

Interview by Sean Boelman

Created by Raphael Bob-Waksberg and Kate Purdy, two of the minds behind Bojack Horseman, Undone is a fascinating sci-fi adult animation show on Prime Video. Season one posed some interesting questions, and now season two expands upon them in thought-provoking ways you wouldn’t expect.

We at disappointment media got the opportunity to talk with Rosa Salazar, lead actress and producer of season two of the show, also known for starring in fan-favorite Alita: Battle Angel. In the interview, we talk about acting for performance capture, the complex themes of the series, and more. Check it out below!

disappointment media: So you've done quite a bit of work at this point with motion capture performances. What about motion capture performances do you like working with?

Rosa Salazar: So Jon Landau, who produced Alita who's just like an OG producer, would kill me, if I said motion capture. [She laughs.] I'd get a stern phone call. "It's performance capture!" That's what he would yell at me on the phone. It's been drilled into my head at this point. So performance capture is what I did on Alita and rotoscope animation, I would call it also performance capture. It is more motion capture than performance capture, because they don't have two high definition cameras five inches from my face. But what I love about acting, and then grouping that work with CGI artists, rotoscope animators, and traditional animators is that I get to exist freely. Those two methods are incredibly different: performance capture for Alita and rotoscope animation, the acting is very, very, very different. For Undone, it's so amazing, because we don't have makeup touches. We don't have someone coming in and straightening out your shirt. We're not worried about the wrinkles on your shirt, or the unkemptness of your hair. We don't have a lot of wardrobe changes because it is a cartoon, after all, a cartoon closet. We wear the same thing every day. There's no major light changes. There aren't incredibly intricate camera changes. So you are totally free to exist within the moment. And with rotoscope animation, it's incredibly challenging physically, emotionally, mentally. Just to compare, on something like Alita, it's such a behemoth. It's such a slow moving beast, you have a lot of technology, people running around doing certain things, you have major changes in camera and location, and you have a lot going on. So you have a lot of downtime. Something like Undone, you have zero downtime. You never sit in your cast chair, you have a 30 minute lunch, and you go right back to work. And when you are working, you are working. On something like Alita, maybe you do an eighth of a page, four pages, and that's working with someone like Robert Rodriguez, who knows exactly what he needs, doesn't waste time. And on something like Undone, you could shoot anywhere from 10 to 20 pages a day. So on any given day, you can go on an emotional roller coaster of breaking up with your boyfriend, seeing your dead father, having a falling out with your sister, having a falling out with your mother, getting into a car accident, seeing the expanse of the universe, all in one workday. When you go to your job, do you have to do such a crazy emotional upheaval day after day after day? I mean, it's incredibly challenging. And because we have no downtime, you are working at a rapid clip. So that's what I love about it. I love that it's uninterrupted. So you're really in the flow, and you really get to this meditative state with it, and it's just divine.

disappointment: So in interviews for season one, you talked about some of the challenges of shooting that performance capture type performance in the rooms of green screens. Was it any easier or different to approach Season Two after having the experience of season one under your belt?
​
Salazar: Yes, it was different. So Hisko Hulsing, who is the amazing director behind Undone, puts it the best way. He's like, "Season one, it was like no one really knew what we were doing yet. We were building a car while learning to drive it." And then it came out, it was very special. We're like, "Okay, we got this!' And then season two, he's like, "Man, now we have a Maserati. Let's put the top down and put it on cruise control!" And then the pandemic hit. So we had to, you know, build a new car. So It was different doing season two, even though we had all of this intelligence that we accrued from doing season one, we had to bob and weave with the changing landscape of time. We had to be fluid, but that is the nature of Undone is sort of learning how to drive the car while you're building it anyway. So even the education in doing that, and doing the unknown really dovetails nicely into the work itself. Now with COVID and season two, things changed dramatically. We were stripped down from like 20 people on set to around six to eight people on set. We had just the actors, the cameraman, our AD, Patrick Metcalf. All of our producers and our directors and our animators were on Zoom. We had our COVID Officer, Ron — shout out to Ron, he was awesome. And that was it. And it was me and Angelique [Cabral] mainly on the set, just us and so it created a more intimate vibe, and honestly, I think, more efficient vibe. Because you don't have people walking in and out of the room. It was like a pressure cooker. But having done season one, we could do season two, had we not done season one? I'm sure we could have pulled it off, but it would have been a lot more of an endeavor.

disappointment: You mentioned the intimacy, I really felt this in the new season, how it kind of expands upon these themes that are very tender themes like mental health, generational trauma. Why do you think it's important for these themes to be discussed in projects like this?

Salazar: Catharsis. That's why it's important: catharsis. Very plainly put, to tell other people that you are not alone, that this is a human condition. And we take it a step further and say, even if you could go back in time, yesterday, last month, three years ago, all the way back to, let's say, my father's father's father, an indigenous man in Peru, and you could go all the way back, the same problems would persist. It is a human condition, no matter how far back, no matter the context, no matter the time period. It's important to remind people that we're human, that we're fallible, that we have secrets, that we make decisions, that we make choices and our choices, whether the intention is good, or what have you, those are choices that are made for a reason. And I think it's important to talk about things like choices because people spend a lot of time and regret, and shame and guilt. And I think it's important to highlight that we're all just doing our damn best out here. And when we talk about things like mental illness, I think it's incredibly important. Look at the way we talk about Kanye West. Look at the horrible way we talk about a man who is openly unwell. We call him crazy, we call him insane, then we will turn around call him a genius and the greatest of all time, but then we make fun of him for having very public mental breakdowns. The conversation, I can't believe it, is just beginning around mental health, mental illness, and it's just really, really important that we discuss it in general. I can't believe it still has a taboo around it when most of us suffer. And I think it's important to show a character like this, who is mixed race, who is a woman dealing with some sort of behavioral illness. I mean, we're still on the fence, right? Is she unwell or does she have shamanic abilities? We're still asking that question and to me, in my opinion, It's somewhere in the middle, like it's a combination of the two. I love that Undone forces these questions. Maybe you can't have one without the other. We talk about Kanye again. Maybe you can't have this genius without some level of like, if you can perceive so much more, if you can see more and feel more, then wouldn't that lend itself to a creative brain? Or can we be well and still have this magic? And I think we're still scratching the surface of that question, not even the answer in Undone. And that's what I love about it. And that's why it's so important, because it really isn't about answering the question. It isn't really isn't about being like, "And this is mental illness, educationally." It's more about being curious.

disappointment: So for season two, you also served as a producer on Undone. What kind of inspired you to take this step into being a producer in addition to starring in the show for the second season?

Salazar: Well, I think speaking of representation, I think it's incredibly important when you have a Latin female lead of a show going into its second season, knowing all of the work that you already put in as the lead of a show, to get recognition for that was a huge boon for me. And also just mad respect for Amazon, mad respect for Tornante, and all of the producers in the team for recognizing the hard work that leads of a show do. I mean, you are the anchor to the ship, and as a lead, you are already doing so much. So it was a big, big sign of respect from Amazon, and I can't thank them enough for recognizing that work and for really putting their money where their mouth is, and being like, here's someone we absolutely respect, who does great work for us. I do go above and beyond and they're like, "And you should be recognized for that." So it was really Amazon who did that. I may be freelance as an actor, but I'm not someone who just rocks into work and is like, "Hey, what's up," like, I really throw my entire self and body into it. And so that was really Amazon, recognizing that and saying, "You deserve this." And it's incredibly important to, to represent that. this is totally off, you know, topic, but when I was watching Only Murders in the Building, to see executive producer Selena Gomez made me cry every time. I mean, it's incredibly important. And it affects me and I'm in this business working at a high level and when I see that, I get really inspired.

Season 2 of Undone streams on Amazon Prime beginning April 29.

Interview by Sean Boelman

Filmmaker Riley Stearns’s follow-up to the critically-acclaimed dark comedy The Art of Self-Defense, the sci-fi comedy Dual debuted at this year’s Sundance film festival. It stars Karen Gillan as a woman who has a double made of herself when she is diagnosed with a terminal illness, only for her to make a miraculous recovery and have to fight her clone in a duel to the death to determine which of them gets to continue to live.

New Zealander actor Beulah Koale (Hawaii Five-O) co-stars in the film as the boyfriend of Gillan’s characters, getting some unexpectedly hilarious moments to play with. We at disappointment media got the opportunity to talk with Koale about his role in the film and what he would do if he found himself in Stearns’s uncanny sci-fi world.

disappointment: So Dual is your first major foray into the sci-fi genre. I mean, you could kind of count Shadow in the Cloud, but that's set more in the past, versus this is like in the near future. What drew you to the sci-fi genre?

Koale: What drew me is mainly fear. Because I'm not very comfortable in that genre, or comedy genre as well. So yeah, when I'm scared of something, I always run towards it. It's a rule that I have for myself. So that's what initially drew me to work towards it. And then seeing that Riley [Stearns] was doing it and seeing his films from before, I was super attracted to that. I wanted to work with him because he has a very particular way of seeing the world through his eyes and only he can do it. That style that Riley has, it's very Riley Stearns, it was a challenge in itself. A great challenge

disappointment: You mentioned how it's also a deadpan comedy. What do you think was the challenge and also the reward of dealing with this deadpan style of humor in the script?

Koale: ​​Yeah, it is both a challenge and reward because it's kinda like walking into a new dojo, turning up to the Master's house and learning a new technique. And the tricks that I learned from the other directors don't really work here — it doesn't work at all. And Riley, puts you in a very vulnerable place. Because you think you have it all figured out, then you turn up to this and you're like, "Nah, man, none of those tricks work. Just say the words and connect with the other actor." And it was such a great experience, just being in that vulnerable spot. Every time he called cut, I wouldn't know how to feel. Like I felt like it went well. But then I also didn't know because I wasn't used to it, so I just looked over to the monitor and was like, "Was that it?" And Riley would be like "Perfect. That's it," and I was like, "Okay man."

disappointment: If you found yourself in a situation where you were terminally ill, would you want to have a double of yourself?

Koale: I probably wouldn't. Because I feel like I'd suffer from a very severe case of FOMO, even if I'm dead. Like, imagine being on your deathbed looking up and your family standing over you crying while your clone is standing there behind you like, "Yeah, come on, buddy. Can't wait for you to go." It would be weird.

disappointment: But say that you did make a miraculous recovery like Karen Gillan's character does in the film, and you had to do a duel to the death. What weapon do you think you would choose?

Koale: I would love to just like fight him with my bare hands. Fight myself, and just be like, "Alright, buddy, let's just stand in the middle of the field and see who wins." You know, that would be my most preferred option. I think the audience would love it. Like, isn't it crazy in that world, that's just like another Saturday night football match? You know, just like everyone's in the audience, "Oh, here we go. Another fight to the death. Let's see how it goes." I feel like I would bring some excitement. You know, we're using no weapons and just see who wins in the end?

disappointment: Yeah, I think that would be fun in a kind-of macabre way.

Koale: Yeah, it's pretty dark. [He laughs.]

disappointment: You co-star in the film with Karen Gillan, who's obviously great in the film, but she's basically giving two distinct performances. What was it like acting alongside someone who was doing that, with two sides?

Koale: Yeah, for me, it was very easy because I just had to act against what felt like two different people. For Karen. It was great to like, being on the outside watching her trying to figure it out. Because when she was acting opposite herself, she had to know how she was going to react to herself. So she had to have it pre-planned. So it was very interesting watching from the outside, watching Karen figure this out and logistically work it all out. But, man, I just love acting. So it just meant I got to have twice the fun in one film.

disappointment: So what would you say was your favorite scene that you had in the film?

Koale: The favorite scene for me personally from the film is definitely that Aaron Paul and Karen Gillan dance-off. When they do that little dance routine, that destroys me every time. Favorite one to shoot... There's a particular scene where me and Karen are sitting down at a diner and I'm apologizing to her, you know, for kind of taking sides of the other Sarah. And in the background, you see the trees going. And we didn't have a wind machine, but when all the chaos in the words, and what's happening, in the subtext, you see the trees just start going crazy in the background, and I was like, "Whoa, that's art. That's why I do this job right there when you get those magic moments.”

disappointment: I think that one of my favorite scenes that you had in the film was the scene after you are with Sarah's double at Sarah's mom's house and then you guys go outside and have that argument. How many takes did it take for you to nail the inflection joke?

Koale: It took me a couple, man. It took me a couple of takes because, you know, I didn't know how to do it. And Riley was kind of like, teaching us and I was like, "Just say it how you want it to be said, dude." And you know, I can't do exactly what Riley does, because I'm me as well. So it did take me a couple. But I know that line, it always gets me, "She says, 'Peter,' [higher] and you say 'Peter,' [lower]," It kills you because it's true as well. You know, when someone says your name in a particular way, it hits you differently. Like, "I liked that. I liked the way you say my name."

disappointment: This film as a whole is definitely a lot less serious than a lot of other films and shows that you have appeared in the past. Did you approach this differently than some of your more serious performances?

Koale: I approach all films exactly the same with a clean slate, and then I figure it out from when I start prepping. And yeah, this film in particular, I had to put a lot of trust in Riley because he knew what he wanted. So I trusted that the advice he was giving me was what was right for the film, which, you know, was right because the thing went to Sundance and it's a great film. And if anything, I took away a new bag of tricks for myself. And you know, I enjoy this comedy deadpan world, you know. I was scared of it initially, but now, I hope to do more of it. Because there's so much more that you can find in comedy, that type of comedy that you can hide things under and I feel more vulnerable and doing comedy sci-fi than doing a drama in a weird way.

Dual is now in theaters and streams on AMC+ beginning May 20.

Interview by Sean Boelman

Nadav Lapid’s films play an interesting balancing act: impassioned yet not excessively overt, artistic but not inaccessible, and political while still being thoroughly empathetic. He truly is one of the best, most personal filmmakers working today, and his latest film, Ahed’s Knee, is one of his angriest and most intimate yet. We at disappointment media had the opportunity to talk with Lapid about his film and style. Check out the interview below!

disappointment media: What stood out to you about Ahed Tamini’s story as the perfect bookends for this story?

Nadav Lapid: I thought that you see so many movies about poets and you never hear their poems and painters and you never see their paintings and I thought it an interesting way, you know, to get to know the essence of this guy, the film director, by casting scene for project, a film that probably will never be shot. There's something in the Ahed Tamini case you know, that is really kind of the meeting point between something that, on one hand is extremely concrete and political and relevant and something that comes from the here and now, and on the other hand, you know, there's something about Ahed Tamini that I told myself that if she would have lived in the I don't know, in the 15th century, it would have become like, I think, extremely desirable topic for painters like Leonardo da Vinci, and Raphael and whoever, because because there was something so iconic about it, something majestic about it. If you freeze this video, seeing her facing the armed soldier, you dive in a second into the world of myths and legends and something that goes beyond a village in the West Bank and Israeli occupation. It's kind of a meeting point between liberty of speech, the Government of Israel, you know. And then the movie ends with the Earth seen from the sky, something that looks at the history of mankind, at human fate, human destiny, the state of the human. Something that is all the time in the extreme close up and extreme long shot.
                        
disappointment: So obviously, the film says a lot about censorship. Why are you especially interested in the topic of censorship in Israel?
                    
Lapid: First of all, I don't know if I'm especially passionate about the topic of censorship. I'm sure that I'm especially passionate, or that I'm eager to dig inside this material that I identify as the Israeli collective soul or as the DNA of this society. And all sorts of angles, you know, and censorship is one of them. I think that in my previous movies, there was all the time this verbal obsession, the place of words, and in a way, this desire to say things as they are, to name things by their true names. And this belief that by naming something, you can redeem it, or you can save it, or you can redeem yourself, or you can change the course of things, etc. And I think that there's something in this act of censorship, I mean, especially the way that it's in the movie. I mean, actually, they tell him, "You can use only the words that we give you. The words that you want to use, you can't use them. You can use only the words that you don't want to use. And of these words, you can say whatever you want, but we are going to give you the bank of words." And in a way, his project is trying to crush it, to reject it exactly by using his words and by using all the words. His obsession for details, for saying everything, I think it's really based on this anti-censorship thing, on saying everything excessively, or this feeling that only saying everything can tell the thing as it is.
                        
disappointment: I thought that it was really interesting in the film that neither of the main characters was really a hero, and neither was really a villain. It's kind of a lot more complex than that. Can you kind of speak to that?
                        
Lapid: Yeah, I think first of all, that in a way, sick societies give you only bad choices. I mean, it's a little bit like in this fable that he's telling about the military service, the torture victim, and the one who observed from a distance. In a way one can't tell if he was this one, this one because one can guess that, at the end, we are all composed of all these aspects. So, in a limited similar way in the movie, you know, you have only bad choices. You can make the noble choice, to be the one who resists, the one who fights, the one who rejects, the one who is opposed. But then, you know, you think about it humanly, you do it for one year, two years, 10 years, 20 years, your entire life, just at the moment, of course, you start to reject everything. I mean fighting all your life against monsters then turns in your head, everyone to a monster and then yourself, you become a monster. You have the feeling that everyone is an enemy, that everyone is hostile, and you lose very quickly the basic human empathy towards the other, the basic human connection. So being for too long right, feeling that all the others are wrong, can easily turn you into a terrible person. And it makes you exhausted and it makes you impatient and aggressive. And at the end, in a way, you're sick, or you get exactly the same diseases that you're trying to heal. So this is one choice and the other choice is to be positive, you know, to believe that you can change things, to believe in the people, to be enthusiastic, to believe that you can work inside the system, to be vividly devoted, like this girl, you know, full with energy, devoted so much to her vision of spreading art. The only thing that she has to sign is the small agreement with the devil. She can do whatever she wants, she just has to make people sign these forms. And she just should turn her eyes when she's doing something that deep inside she knows is wrong. So that's why in a way you can be the human kind and nice collaborator or the arrogant and aggressive and hostile resistant. Both in a way, are bad choices.

disappointment: So you mentioned part of the film is about spreading art to and culture to remote areas that otherwise wouldn't get to see this type of challenging art. How do you think that people can help bring this type of challenging art to those people who wouldn't be exposed to it?
                        
Lapid: My movies, I don't know if they are complicated, but I always want to believe that they are not snobbish. I mean, they are not snobbish because I think that, you know, snobbish filmmakers, they put intention in leaving all sorts of barriers, in order that only a very narrow club could get in. A little bit like a fancy party in Cannes, you know. I truly believe that my movies are aimed at each and every human being, because they talk in a way about each and every human being and about things that are inside all of us. Of course, I use formal tools and strategies that maybe are not very recurrent in most movies. But you know, I mean, sometimes you feel that today, the worst thing they can say about your movie is that it's extremely original. But I would say I don't understand filmmakers who don't like adventures, who don't like cinematic adventures, And even more, I can't understand filmmakers who invest time and energy in developing the script and working with the actors, but don't look for their own form. The special form of their movie. For me, it's as if you write the most intimate and personal love letter or suicide letter, and you find the form on Google. So I tend to believe that these singular formalistic elements of my movies, turn them at the end more communicative because I think they turn them less objective, less cold, and more true and personal. But of course, you know that in a universe, where people are inundated by a kind of formatted art, every difference is a barrier, is an obstacle. And talking now a little bit about the sociology of art, I think there is this middle class that once felt obliged to know the key authors and the key pieces of art in a lot of domains, but let's say in cinema, whether they like them more or like them less but but it was a part of, of almost of being a member in a certain circle of society. Today, a lot of this middle class became totally indifferent to cinema, especially to everything that is in any way demanding. I don't know, maybe they like restaurants. But it's not like you know, I have magical solutions. I mean, Godard once called himself a successful director of unsuccessful movies. The only thing I can do is to try to keep on talking in the most honest way I know about existence and to hope that there will be as many people as possible, that it will really count that what I do is really count for them. I also think that we tend to count numbers, numbers of spectators, numbers of tickets. Okay, which is a certain criteria, but people ignore parallel criteria, which is to which extent people were shaken at what they saw, which was important. If 1000 people fill the theater to watch your movie, and 100 hated it, but 900 out of them thought the movie was really nice and will totally forget it when they get to the parking lot. So according to certain criterias it's great, because you filled the theater, but what exactly does it mean? I do feel that, you know, beyond numbers, there is our group of people that this cinema talks to in a very intimate way.
                        
disappointment: So, the politics in your films are definitely very nuanced. I mean, you have this complex relationship with Israel in your films where it is critical of them, but it's also a love letter to Israel in some ways. How do you think this has evolved through your filmography?
                        
Lapid: I think it became more and more frontal and naked, in a way. I mean, they don't have the desire or the energy to faint. And to use all sorts of formulas, and something very raw, very frontal, and very direct. They need less and less detours. I have less and less patience for this round, elaborated script that will give you the excuse to get to a certain point and I'm more and more fascinated by the cinematic gestures that contain the truth inside it. And this is also on the political aspect. Afterwards of course, in a way more frontal, more brutal, more direct, strangely enough it becomes complex because it also exposes its opposite. I mean, you know, when you shout and curse with so much enthusiasm, of course, you also reveal a huge intimacy.

Ahed’s Knee is now playing in theaters.

Interview by Sean Boelman

There is no doubt that Halo is one of the most beloved video game franchises ever. As a result, the new series, which debuts on Paramount+ on March 24, was one of the hottest streaming prospects of the year. Made with fans in mind but also accessible to those who don't have any experience playing the games, it's a sci-fi epic for the ages, and something that viewers are going to want to stream week after week.

We at disappointment media got the opportunity to interview the cast of the series timed to its premiere at the 2022 SXSW Film Festival. First, we speak with actor Pablo Schreiber, who plays the series's iconic protagonist Master Chief, about the tremendous responsibility it was to take on the mantle. We also got to speak with newcomer Yerin Ha, who plays original character Quan Ah, and Jen Taylor, who reprises her voice acting role as Cortana (albeit in live action), about how they hope their characters can inspire young women who watch the show.

Check out the interview below and be sure to watch Halo, streaming on Paramount+ beginning March 24.

Interview by Sean Boelman

When one thinks of the most legendary character actors working today, the name Udo Kier should immediately come to mind. Boasting an impressively large and diverse filmography, Kier is just as known for his off-the-wall and crazy bit parts as he is for his supporting roles in films by auteurs such as Lars von Trier and Rainer Werner Fassbinder.

His newest role, in Carlson Young’s twisted Alice in Wonderland-like fantasy The Blazing World, sees him more in the former category as this film’s White Rabbit. We at disappointment media had the opportunity to sit down with the iconic actor and have a conversation about the role in the film, in addition to his career as a whole. Check out the interview below!

disappointment media: You currently have 270 credits and counting on your resume. How do you keep up such an impressive output?

Udo Kier: Well, modern technology knows more about me than I do. I don't count my films. And when I talk to journalists, they always say, "It's almost 300 films," and I say, "Yes, 100 films are bad, 50 films you can watch with some good wine, and 50 films are good." And, you know, I think I did only with Lars von Trier, I did 10 films or 12, Fassbinder, and all. So there are good films, but, you know, as an actor, unless it's a director like David Lynch, you know, I'm a very lucky man, that I work with many people like Wim Wenders, like Werner Herzog, like Lars von Trier, they cannot make a bad film. They can only make a film people don't like, but it doesn't mean that it's a bad film. But there are directors who will tell you wonderful stories. And then you start working with them. And you feel something is not in my direction, and then you still have to make the film. And there are films I did I have never seen because I didn't have a good time making it. So why should I go and depress myself in the theater? So you never know. 

disappointment: So you mentioned that you've worked with many accomplished filmmakers, but you also leave time for up and coming filmmakers like Carlson Young of The Blazing World. What do you like about working with new talent like this?

Kier: Because they have talent. You see, I myself, I have never been to acting school. And I became a professor. And the thing that I say to my students, when we had a speech, I always said, "Talent is something you cannot learn. You can learn a technique, but you cannot learn talent," which is true, then it comes to question about his style, how much you want. When Carson sent me the script, and the producer, I said, "Okay, I read it twice." You see, when I get a script, I read first my role only. And if it's interesting, then I read the whole script with my role in it. And if I'm not necessary to be there, it doesn't change the story, why should I be in the movie? So I read it twice. I liked it. And I said, "Let's meet." And we talked and spent the afternoon together, she came with the producer. And I liked her, I liked her energy. And I understood very quickly that she was not really out to make a short film, which she did, but she got her attention. People saw it, and then she found the money to make the feature film, which she had planned all the time. She hadn't planned to make a short film and then was a success, and made a feature film. So I liked her. The same thing happened to me with Todd Stephens for Swan Song. I read, he came here. We talked one afternoon, and we had details, and I made the film. So talent, I like because I know from the past, in more than 50 years, the internet knows more than I do about my life. I must say I prefer independent films. I mean, I made Blade, I made Armageddon. Imagine if I would have gone to the director and would have said, "I have an idea." They would have said "What? You have a script? What idea?" But when you are making independent films, you become as an actor, you become part of the creation also. And Blazing World it was like, I know it was fantasy and she chose me to be her fantasy. That was really a compliment, she could have asked a lot of actors. But she wanted me to be cast standing by the water, just go with my finger, "Come, come." And I liked when I went there, what was very important, I hadn't made any films because of the virus. And they guaranteed me it was 100% safe, which it was. Not 100%, let's say 90. But I went there to Texas. They tested me, I had to wait till the next morning, there was a property, a farm where everybody was staying. The food came three times a day, nobody was allowed to leave. And everybody was living there. And we made the film. And she was amazing. A young, delicate, young girl able to write, direct, star in it, and be there and listen to the actors and she's very, very creative. And that's why I'm very happy that I did the movie because she's very talented.

disappointment: You mentioned how some of your scenes in The Blazing World don't have much dialogue. What is either the challenge or the reward in acting scenes like this?

Kier: Well, you're making me a compliment, of course, I have enough possibilities to express myself without text. Text is just there to undermine something. You know, you can say, "Oh, I'm hungry." As you can also say, "Ahh, ahh, food! Food!" You know you can have your fantasy to go either direction. I don't need text as much. It's like Lars von Trier tells everybody, "Don't act." I mean, I made films with Lars where we had our self service table with Lauren Bacall, Ben Gazzara, James Caan, Nicole Kidman, Udo Kier, Stellan Skarsgård, and Lars comes up to us and says, "And don't forget, don't act." You see, it is like you don't need text. Sometimes actors they love text, I won't mention any names, and start with the back to the camera by the chimney and then they'll turn a little round and talk to the floor. And finally they come up and I always call them another Oscar speech.

​disappointment: So what is different in your approach of how you act in certain arthouse dramas like what you've done with Lars von Trier versus fantasy movies like The Blazing World?

Kier: I prefer, of course, the fantasy because I can use my fantasy. If some director like Lars, a great director and friend, I'm the godfather of his first child and we made our first movie several years ago, but I know he doesn't like us to act. To do a drama. We just be there and have a good script and a good situation and we talk. But personally, when I did John Carpenter's film, you know and opened my stomach at the end and put my insides into the projector, like a sausage factory. I like that. Because it's so ridiculous. But you know, I don't play as ridiculous. And I don't think it's ridiculous. I think it's, you know, a person with a special mind.

disappointment: So you mentioned a bit earlier how you like to take these roles that are pivotal, but small? How do you make these turns so memorable?

Kier: Because the way I talk. You know, I always say, there is a way when you play a killer, you have a gun, and then you look at your partner, shoot. But I wouldn't do that. I prefer, if the director allows it, that the gun is in front of me. And I clean my fingernails and I say, "When I'm done, I'm going to kill you. Are you happy with your hair?" BANG! And people say, "That was evil!" To kill somebody is evil one way or the other. So now it's like, I read the roles. I mean, I in Johnny Mnemoic played the boss of Keanu Reeves, Ralfi. And, you know, then the Chinese people come and kill me. When you play, in short roles or small roles, not long on screen, it's very hard to keep the memory. For example, now with Swan Song, my life has changed. To get a page in the New York Times, writing, "On top after 50 years, Udo Kier finally becomes a leading man." And I was thinking, "Were they right? I made so many movies," but I had never been a lead in America. I had the lead in Germany with Dracula and Frankenstein, but never in an American production. And I was thinking why? And I know why. Because the people start with you and follow you till the end. Yeah, when I showed Swan Song, I hope people can tell me "Oh, you made us cry, you made us laugh," because they follow the personality. Or you have fantasy roles, like in The Blazing World, which are totally crazy. And he sings a song, "There are three keys. You have to open each one. But I'll tell you, they're not as nice to you as I am." You know, it's fun. And that's why when I do even commercial movies like Blade, that my teeth are going to be pulled out and I'm going to be exploding in the sun. And I said, "Great! What a great way of leaving a movie." So it's as always, I look for something interesting. I wouldn't do a movie where it's a boring part. I wouldn't do that. Never. Because especially now I'm getting older. Next week is my birthday. 77. Lucky number. I'm born on the 14th of October, two times seven is 14. So and, you know at the moment, I'm in Hunters, with Al Pacino, in eight episodes, I'm in six, and I'm still working on it. I'm flying next week to Prague to shoot three weeks and then I'm done. And so there you have it.

disappointment: Well thank you so much for your time. I really enjoyed speaking with you and I can't wait to see 270 more movies from you!

Kier: I know that's not going to happen, but I'm looking, because time is money, and time is to sin. I'm looking for something now for the next couple of years, which really nobody has seen. I want to, will I be able? I cannot answer that question, but I want to do something amazing. Really amazing.

The Blazing World is now in theaters and on VOD.